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  1.  

    TomD

    Petroleum is fungible, so it doesn’t matter whether the specific ISIS-sold oil molecules ever arrive here. Somebody is buying that oil and is therefore buying less oil on the “regular” oil market.

    The more oil the US burns, the higher the “regular” market price goes, and a higher “regular” market price means a higher black market price for ISIS. The more we burn, the more money ISIS makes (even if we don’t buy any directly from ISIS).

  2.  

    Streetsblog Network

    Boy, I don’t really get what that was about, but we described it the way the study authors described it. I don’t claim any special knowledge about Portland.

  3.  

    Alicia

    If Portland had a good Mayor I would never visit CityLab again.

    So you’re hung up with nitpicking Streetblog for saying “Portland” instead of “TriMet”, but you have no problem with referring to Streetsblog as Citylab? Talk about factual errors.

  4.  

    MaxRedline

    Developments around freeways and arterials are not subsidized, Jym. Try again.

    And do some research next time. It helps if you know what you’re trying to talk about.

  5.  

    Oregon Mamacita

    How do you define the “suburb” relationship? People work in PDX and live in Hillsboro, and (this is important)
    work in Hillsboro and live in PDX. This idea that Hillsboro is a “bedroom” suburb of Portland and somehow controlled by Portland is not true. I guess my objection is that Port;land takes credit for things that happen in other
    cities (Vancouver) and other counties (Washington, Clackamas).

    The money & power is in Washington County- not PDX. So I guess I reject the relationship that “Suburb of” implies in this case. PDX gets no credit for Washington County’s success. Hillsboro is not in Portland’s shadow. That is not Portland’s Max. It’s Tri-Met.

  6.  

    G1991

    Yes, I’ve been seeing their press releases. A CIN-IND-CHI (and maybe Louisville) high-speed line would be incredibly beneficial. However, the line would be the 110 mph “high-speed,” and that’s if our governor and DOT will get on board. BIG if. I’ll be frank, I’m not a fan of implementing 110 mph lines and calling it good. An effective high-speed rail service (or maglev, depending on one’s views on the way modern inter-city mobility should be implemented) connects cities in a manner that will have a significant impact. Frequent, 150-220+ mph, point to point service with few stops in between and connections to good transit. I see no point in putting money into a 110 mph connection when it will eventually have to be upgraded. Why make the investment twice?

  7.  

    Oregon Mamacita

    DP,

    I actually hate the subject of urban/transit planning and only blog because my city let me down. I don’t know what the right way is to plan for growth- but I see what is exactly the wrong thing to do and that is what Portland is preparing to do.. If Portland had a good Mayor I would never visit CityLab again.

    Step up, for god sakes. The shallow dogmatic group-thinkers like Alicia would cause anyone to howl at the moon. Over and out, and for god sakes point out the factual errors so I don’t have to.

  8.  

    Oregon Mamacita

    I love the word “ornery.” Up vote! My part of Portland is kinda down home rural and I like it.

  9.  

    Oregon Mamacita

    In PDX, we do it through tax breaks and waiving charges and indirectly through an unfair property tax arrangements whereby a 300,000 house close-in pays 50% of the tax paid by a house in Outer SE. The crappier your neighborhood- the higher the taxes. And, the Mayor spends $ downtown and close-in neighborhoods. That’s what you see in pictures.

    Max on the Eastside is ugly, with no TOD- just weeds and transients and the occasional mall.

  10.  

    BeeKaaay

    And who builds the roads? Oh yeah. politically connected cronies. The tax was $$$MORE MONEY FOR CRONIES$$$

  11.  

    BeeKaaay

    ISIS sells oil (which they seized at gunpoint from oil fields) at distressed prices of $30-$35/barrel on the black market, because they are locked out of the regular oil market. None of it gets to the USA. But facts are not important to you.

  12.  

    BeeKaaay

    yes, and greedy government is good according to leftwingwackos.

  13.  

    BeeKaaay

    versus leftwingwacko ideology which is about $$$MORE MONEY FOR CRONIES$$$ is there a difference?

  14.  

    Oregon Mamacita

    Where/when did I say I lived in Hillsboro? I am a long-time Portland resident (Eastside) and I have friends in Hillsboro, Helvetia and the environs. I also know my state.

  15.  

    Jym Dyer

    So who subsidizes the developments around freeways and arterials, exactly?

  16.  

    BeeKaaay

    I-80 is not free, there is a part that is part of the Illinois Leechway.

  17.  

    dpballard

    Welcome, dear Streetsblog author, to the venerable west-coast tradition of Being Entitled To Your Own Facts.

    It’s actually a bit of a shame that the conversation has been diverted this way, because beneath all of Mamacita’s lunacy is an actual, valid point: Portland really isn’t the functional Transitopia that the national media so often shorthand it as. There have been any number of egregious planning mistakes that have palpably harmed or neglected mobility within the city proper’s mid-density areas (whose residents vastly outnumber those of showpieces like The Pearl, or of failed “TOD” placemaking like the South Waterfront).

    Portland also has ongoing, serious employment and economic-inequity troubles. It is worth being credulous of studies that paint an overly rosy picture of Portland outcomes, but for reasons (mostly) unrelated to Mamacita’s weird hair-splitting and false equivalencies.

  18.  

    oooBooo

    So your point is that road cronies replaced rail cronies? I believe I’ve mentioned that a couple times. It’s interesting how you are so concerned with the funding that pushed road politics but no concern about the funding pushing the transportation politics you like.

  19.  

    BeeKaaay

    Stop calling it a highway or expressway. It is not free.

    It is a tollway.

    And this project will go through, for the normal reason: $$$MORE MONEY FOR CRONIES$$$

  20.  

    Jym Dyer

    Such language. Country folk sure have gotten ornery. Perhaps some new! improved! urbanism will cheer ‘em up.

  21.  

    oooBooo

    I’ve covered this many times here. You can find it. I’m tired of repeating it. Simply put the calculation you folks uses a series of incorrect assumptions. The first one being that without driving roads would not be needed. The second being only taxes paid by drivers related to driving are tolls, fuel, and reg. Those are the two big ones.

    There is no money to take here unless you want the roads to turn to dust. The funding all this transit depends on is sucked out of the fuel and other motoring specific side.

  22.  

    oooBooo

    You clearly don’t understand US history and how those who own this country think and what they’ve been up to for over a century.

  23.  

    Gezellig

    How will driving fund itself when driving can’t fund it?

    http://usa.streetsblog.org/2013/01/23/drivers-cover-just-51-percent-of-u-s-road-spending/

  24.  

    Gezellig

    That’s *entirely* the point–we’re nowhere close to being the Netherlands. Yet the photos are to show that even in your nightmare scenario of pervasive separated bike infrastructure, it doesn’t mean it’s anti-car.

  25.  

    Jameson

    Okay, but why is it a separate thing from the bike lane? Why not use the limited width for a really good separated cycle track (which could be jogged on too) and a really good sidewalk? You can have it be marked as being part of the recreation loop. It just seems a really odd configuration to me.

  26.  

    oooBooo

    Another pointless spew of platitudes and insults. Let me know when you have an actual argument to present.

    As to the link, we go back to the unanswered question, how will transit fund itself when driving can’t fund it?

  27.  

    Alicia

    Sorry that your New Urbanist bs is being rejected by your fellow Portlanders.

    So now you’re flip-flopping and claiming to be a Portlander, instead of a resident of a city that is “miles apart culturally”?

    Right now, some reasonable fact-based folks are being turned onto the fact that CityLab isn’t big on fact-checking.

    Are you so busy commenting that you forgot what website you’re on?

  28.  

    oooBooo

    You[re intentionally missing the point to continue your addiction to posting photos of the Netherlands. When you learn more about the politics of the USA, where the goals are control and dependency in the style of a company town, maybe you’ll realize that this isn’t the Netherlands.

  29.  

    oooBooo

    Since you’re going over posts from 6 days ago, you can read where I’ve already addressed this.

  30.  

    Oregon Mamacita

    Oh shut up, PN. I am sucessful at lobbying and I love Portland- the real Portland. Sorry that your New Urbanist bs is being rejected by your fellow Portlanders.

    Patking minimums anyone? Oh yeah! We got them back. Demolitions of small houses for McMansions- progress made there.. Busses instead of light rail on Powell- check. I am coming out ahead. Call me names, but you are not my audience.

    Right now, some reasonable fact-based folks are being turned onto the fact that CityLab isn’t big on fact-checking.

  31.  

    Oregon Mamacita

    Oh, balderdash from someone who doesn’t know the area. It’s a cottage industry, I suppose.

  32.  

    Gezellig

    Oh, I got it. That’s all the more the point. Since arterial roads are the minority of roads even *if* they were all getting 50% road diets (which is clearly nowhere near happening nor being proposed) that means it’s very little overall space in terms of roadways.

    We’re going from 150% All Cars All The Time car-centric planning to, like, 137%.

  33.  

    Alicia

    Hillsboro is a free-standing city miles from Portland

    “Miles”? Less than 20 miles. Not very far, and well within the normal limits of what is considered a “suburb” of a large city.

    Your anti-rural bias is showing.

    Observing that cities have suburbs is “anti-rural bias”? How does that work, exactly?

    (Also, my city is a lot more rural than yours, and has less than half the population. I also don’t live in a suburb of one of the most populous cities in the country.)

    Hillsboro is a free-standing city miles from Portland with its own history and culture

    And Royal Oak and the Grosse Pointes are distinct from the city of Detroit… but that doesn’t change the fact that they are suburbs.

  34.  

    C Monroe

    The Cincinnati metro leaders want the high speed line from Cinci/Indy/Chicago.

  35.  

    Portland Native

    OM trolls all over Portland transit blogs. It’s best to just ignore it.

  36.  

    Gezellig

    So if a cycletrack on a 40mph+ arterial is “separatist” do you also think the same of sidewalks along such routes for pedestrians? Why not tell people on foot to just “take the lane” and walk vehicularly?

    There’s also a logical contradiction in the fact that you’ve mentioned the US will never be able to implement infrastructure on the scale and pervasiveness as in the Netherlands. Yet you’re still worried about an anti-car slippery slope when the US gets something that amounts to 1% of 1% of what’s seen on the scale in the Netherlands–despite the fact that even *if* we went “all Dutch” (which you say is impossible in the first place) it still wouldn’t be anti-car anyway.

    After all, the Netherlands is still very much a land of free freeways, parking minimums, prevalent car ownership, prevalent free parking lots, etc. Even with all they’ve done they’re hardly anti-car—just pro-bike. If you’ve never been to the Netherlands you may be surprised at how strong car culture still is there–I was. The following attached images are all from streetscapes in the Netherlands:

    http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1104/7662/original.jpg?w=600&h

    (freeway-like blvd through Central Amsterdam)

    http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1104/7663/original.jpg?w=600&h

    Big-box Makro (like Costco) alongside a freeway

    http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1104/7664/original.jpg?w=600&h

    (aerial view of a shopping center)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD6Et3ZZ90s
    10-lane North American-style freeway, no tolls (roads generally don’t have tolls there)

    For better or worse, these are far more common than you’d think–even in central Amsterdam:

    http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-SUJYGOP4.jpg

    http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/dedupkes/08042010119.jpg

    http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/SteeleFrodge/ModderDSC03515.jpg

    Not everything has to be mutually exclusive. Referencing “First They Came…” is all the more hilarious given this.

  37.  

    Kelly Blynn

    The “shared use path” is part of a recreation loop around the district that came out of the sector plan. It will be for joggers, walkers, and cyclists if they want to.

  38.  

    MaxRedline

    Look up “Beaverton Round”. Subsidized with millions in tax dollars, it nonetheless went bankrupt. Twice. And then there was the water damage. If you believe that you’re an adult, why not act like one? Adults aim for some degree of fiscal responsibility; children (like ravens) are attracted to shiny objects.

  39.  

    BlueFairlane

    I’ve looked pretty closely, and I’ve talked to people. Face it. You’re a suburb of a city you hate.

  40.  

    Oregon Mamacita

    Well, next time look closer and talk to people. Because you are wrong.

  41.  

    BlueFairlane

    I have, no less than a month ago in fact. It all looks like the same smear of suburb to me. The center of Hillboro is closer to the center of Portland than several Chicago neighborhoods are to the Loop. Hillsboro is included in the Portland Urban Growth Boundary. A random political boundary might run through the middle of the neighborhoods, but it’s still a suburb.

  42.  

    Oregon Mamacita

    It is still semi-rural and suburban and it isn’t Portland. Have you been out here?

  43.  

    BlueFairlane

    Hillsboro has a population approaching 100,000. I’d hardly call that rural.

  44.  

    Oregon Mamacita

    Political boundaries matter. So what if the census bureau didn’t say Vancouver-Portland- Beaverton. City Lab should stick to things it knows and not put false impressions out there. Hillsboro is a free-standing city miles from Portland with its own history and culture. The high tech companies deliberately avoided Portland for a reason. Your anti-rural bias is showing.

    Portland’s narcissism is a regional joke. The city is deeply divided and somewhat disfunctional.

  45.  

    Coolebra

    Another step following the footprints already left in I-55′s ROW.

    Has no one noticed . . . that IDOT may have taken an early step toward Illiana construction in 2009 by initiating a study that led to removing the southbound exit for Wilmington off of I-55? It was a study that, oddly enough, found the exit hazardous though they acknowledged their analysis couldn’t prove it. The investment was ultimately made based on little more than what was framed as an educated guess:

    http://www.i-55wilmingtonstudy.com/images/I-55_Purpose%20and%20Need.pdf

    Note that the study predicts nearly a seven-fold increase in ramp volumes at Lorenzo Road, too. From what?? People fishing Heidecke Lake or the Kankakee River?

    Also, what of the project to completely re-do the Arsenal road interchange? Was that level of investment necessary, even considering the CenterPointe inter-modal facility in Elwood?

    Of course, each investment is unrelated to the other – they’re all projects that stand on their own, right?

    Surely the Illiana wasn’t already a done deal.

    After all, there’s a mandatory federal study that needed to be completed before such a decision could be made.

  46.  

    Alicia

    Tell that to the Census Bureau, which officially refers to the metro area as “Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro”

    http://www.census.gov/population/metro/files/lists/2013/List2.xls

  47.  

    Oregon Mamacita

    Hillsboro is not a suburb of Portland. They are miles apart culturally and have different leadership. They are in different counties. I say that City Lab’s mis-understanding of Oregon’s history and geography is just an attempt to amplify the false impression of Portland as a New Urbanist utopia.

    So yeah- it’s like confusing Cleveland and Columbus. Maybe now you know how we feel when you confuse downtown Portland with east Portland or Hillsboro.

  48.  

    Coolebra

    Yep, it’s Peotone driving the Illiana, as well. Slight pun intended.

  49.  

    goodgreekgirl

    So, the total U.S. population in 2014 is 318,827,000 according to WIki. Let’s assume that half are women (thus, capable of giving birth — we’ll ignore the fact that many of these women are post menopausal and incapable of giving birth, many are infertile, and many are pre-menarche and incapable of giving birth) that gives us 159,413,500 women in the U.S.

    If you are arguing that there are 51 million (51,000,000) babies “murdered” (I assume you mean aborted) what you are saying is that approximately one third of all american women have an abortion in any given year.

    That means one in three women gets pregnant and has an abortion every year in the U.S.

    This is just mathematically ridiculous. This is why innumeracy is a huge problem in the US. It allows people to believe things that are simply not mathematically possible.

  50.  

    Coolebra

    Oh, and the following is an interesting read, as well. It’s written by a guy whose Mercury Eight may have rusted to dust before your Buick Special even came off the assembly line in Detroit.

    They say we get wiser as we get older, maybe you’re still curing. In any case, here’s the piece:

    http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1116.htm