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  1.  

    barefootmeg

    In essence and in truth, my argument is that IN THE ABOVE PHOTO there is no intersection shown. And in most of the photos that I see of protected bike lanes, there is not intersection shown. That of all the pictures of protected bike lanes that I see, it is very rare for a protected intersection to be shown.

    I am not saying anything about what is or is not going to be done with this particular bike lane. I am not saying anything about what is or is not going to be done on any protected bike lane anywhere in the world. What I am saying is that WHEN THERE IS A PICTURE OF A PROTECTED BIKE LANE, THE INTERSECTION IS RARELY, IF EVER, SHOWN.

    I don’t know how to make it any clearer than that. If you would like to continue to read your own prejudices into what I’m saying, have at it. But I’m done here.

  2.  

    andrelot

    I see these sort of more generic polls as of limited value, they express general intentions. It would be more relevant when actual budget allocation process is in place and actual trade-offs need to be done.

  3.  

    Gezellig

  4.  

    Social_werkk

    I’d gladly move back to my home town of Little Rock, AR (or any other decent city in the South) if I could live well without a car. Until that happens, I’m staying put in Chicago. One of the big reasons I decided to move here was due to the ability to live pretty well without a car. Of course I know this depends on where one lives in the city and the type of job one has.

  5.  

    Bob Gunderson

    Where’s Mayor Lee on this list? Didn’t he revolutionize transit on Sundays?

  6.  

    barefootmeg

    No. The argument wasn’t an argument so much as a question. I’ll repeat it because it seems to me like you jumped right to conclusions without actually ever reading my original comment. I said, “Why do pictures of protected bike lanes never include the intersections?”

    You’ll note that in our back and forth discussion, we both agree that the given picture does NOT include an intersection.

    So, my argument, if it’s to be put it in such a way, is that when I see pictures of protected lanes, it’s often (if not always) just the lane and never the extension of that protection into the intersection. You seem to agree with me that the above photo doesn’t show protection through the intersection. So as far as I can tell, you agree with my original statement. What you don’t agree with is all of the straw men that you set up against me so that you could try to knock me down with them. Thanks for that.

  7.  

    Marven Norman

    So in essence, the argument is that we’re “not sure” if they will provide proper accommodation for bikes, so they should provide in none at all. Considering that the article mentions that they still have at least two more years for design, the lack of a picture of a specific intersection isn’t a smoking gun of anything yet.

  8.  

    Dennis_Hindman

    The number of people commuting by bicycle in each income group are less than 2% of the total commuters according to Census Bureau survey results. These are pathetically low results, not high numbers.

    Creating more choices for transportation is not a means of gentrification or a way to exclude people. Installing bicycle infrastructure encourages more people to use a type of transportation that is very low cost and increases their opportunities for jobs by widening the geographical area that they can get to and can also make it easier to reach major transit lines that give better service than a typical bus route.

    What needs to be asked is why the bicycling rate is so low in every income category in relation to the number of people in that same income group who commute to work by walking. The human motion to get a bicycle to move is very similar to walking and a person can go three times further in a half an hour bicycling than they can walk. Its obvious that the main reasons for a much lower rate for commuting by bicycle is that bicycling doesn’t feel safe enough, comfortable or easy to use.

    When there are no low-stress places to ride a bicycle or a place to easily store it when you get to your destination, then how useful can a bicycle be to most people regardless of income or the color of their skin?

    If you want to get a much higher proportion of the population bicycling then it would make more sense to try and replicate what has been shown to work in countries and cities that have a much higher proportion of the population that bicycles.

    By far the highest share of bicycle commuters in any U.S. city is Davis California at 24.5% (Boulder comes in a distant second at 11.1%). Part of that is due to a high proportion of the residents being college students. But, Davis has more than double the percentage of bicycle commuters compared to other cities in the U.S. that have a large proportion of residents who are college students, such as Boulder.

    Why is that?

    Could it be due to Davis installing bike lanes on over 95% of their arterial streets and having an equal number of miles of bike paths. Los Angeles has 3,000 miles of arterial/collector streets. Putting bike lanes on 95% of those streets would be 2,850 miles of bike lanes and adding a equal number of miles of bike paths would bring that total to 5,700 miles of bike lanes and paths. Los Angeles currently has about 450 miles of bike paths/lanes.

    Could it be that the main reason that LA has a 1.2% bicycle commuting mode share, and Davis 24.5%, is that Davis has 12.6 times more miles of bike paths/lanes per miles of arterial streets than LA does? Davis also has a far greater proportion of miles of bike lanes/paths per square mile than any other U.S. city. There is a strong correlation that this is a large contributing factor in why this city also has by far the highest proportion of workers who commute by bicycle.

    Which country in the world has the highest percentage of the population who bicycle regularly and also has the highest quality and extensive network of bicycle infrastructure? The answer is the Netherlands.

    Mark Wagenbuur, the author of the BicycleDutch blog, gave his perspective on what he saw for bicycle infrastructure in Chicago, San Francisco and Davis:

    http://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/us-cycling-from-a-dutch-perspective/

    Los Angeles installed about 160 miles of bike paths and bike lanes in fiscal years 2012 through2013. The result was that there was a 20% increase in the number of people stating that they bicycled to work on the Census Bureau 2013 household surveys. There will likely be a total increase in bicycle commuting of about 40% as a result of the amount of bicycle infrastructure that has been installed in the last three fiscal years. This increase is likely to be at least partially due to more people in lower income areas bicycling to work mainly as a result of simply striping bike lanes on the streets. Little, if any, promotion or information was made about these bike lanes. Yet, this produced a far greater increase in bicycling than years of trying to get people to bicycle more by talking to them or trying to get them more involved in the process.

    Why don’t the poor and more people of color participate in meetings? Those that do participate frequently tend to have been to college. Which is a contributing factor in why Adonio Lugo and Tanya Snyder are writing these articles and participating in the interviews.

    I have to include a video of a musician of “color” singing his song crucify your mind. He was born in Mexico. He has mainly worked at hard manual labor and been poor for most of his life:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1ifisA0_ss

    It would be very unlikely that a uneducated person could write a song like this. He has read a lot in his life and has a degree in Philosophy.

  9.  

    Marven Norman

    Several studies have found that giving cyclists the yield requirement is safer than giving it to motorists. Nevertheless, if that sounds too horrific, then phase right turns separately from cyclists going straight. Or use an ‘all-directions green‘ phase for bikes where only the cycletracks have green.

  10.  

    Marven Norman

    This design [hopefully] ensures that when someone makes a mistake, a KSI isn’t the result.

  11.  

    Glenn Scott

    It is interesting that the helmet law is by the city. In Melbourne it was a State law. Similarly, in Vancouver, BC, it is a provincial law as they are trying to get their bike share off the ground.

    By the way, it is “Fraser,” named after the explorer Simon Fraser.

  12.  

    Gezellig

    Sure! Btw, from the National Safety Council, a cheery chart showing your risks of dying from various activities:

    http://www.nsc.org/news_resources/injury_and_death_statistics/Documents/2014-Injury-Facts-43.pdf

    1 in 7 Americans will die of a heart/cancer disease
    1 in 29 will die due to a respiratory disease
    1 in 103 will die due to suicide
    1 in 492 will die while inside a car
    1 in 723 will die while on foot
    1 in 1,043 will die drowning
    1 in 3,649 will die choking on food
    1 in 4,974 will die on a bicycle

    Sure, you can point out that relatively few people bike, but even breaking it down to a per-capita per-hour traveled thing (as per the link above) biking is not a particularly dangerous activity.

    Yet people dragging down their cigarette will yell at you to “GET A HELMET.” It’s an emotion-based cultural belief, not one based on facts.

  13.  

    Brian F Morrissey

    And the way to throw out this law is to cite this data with a proposition to apply the helmet law to drivers as well.

  14.  

    Brian F Morrissey

    Thanks!

  15.  

    Gezellig

    Helmet culture is well-intentioned but not based on actual results and unfortunately creates lots of unintended consequences:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07o-TASvIxY

    Cognitive framing/branding of an activity *does* matter. In effect what cities like Seattle are doing is saying: “hey, guys, biking is DANGEROUS!! But pretty please do give it a shot?”

    Even signage and stenciling matter. If you’re an Interested and Concerned and your city is constantly visually reinforcing to you that to bike you need to be a hunched-over Mr. Mushroom Head road warrior, you’ll probably continue with the conclusion biking is for “Those Brave/Athletic/Equipment-Having People” and Not For Me.

    Which activity looks low-stress, “normal,” and easy?

    https://seacat.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/bikestencilstreet.jpg

    http://crosscut.com/media/resized_image/story_image/seattle-bike-lane_fit_600x600.jpg

  16.  

    Gezellig

    Yup!

    “But we’re not done yet. First of all, let’s compare a cyclist at a comfortable commuting pace of 12MPH, with a car driver on the interstate at 75MPH. Now, the risk per hour is equal, because the car is covering 6.2 times more miles than the cyclist. So the accident risk per hour of the two activities is roughly equal. “

    http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safest-form-of-transportation/

  17.  

    Brian F Morrissey

    I wish I could find it now, but I recently saw a study that showed per-hours-traveled, a driver was slightly more likely to suffer a head injury than a cyclist. On a sheer numbers basis, driving by far causes the most head injuries of ANY cause. So the health cost logic further loses water and shows that helmet-laws are reactionary in nature or are a bone thrown to the conservatives who wish to hold the transportation status-quo.

  18.  

    Gezellig

    That’s quite a blanket statement and not one founded in reality.

    Bidirectional cycletracks can actually work well when designed to best practices. Even with frequent driveways:

    http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1319/5263/original.jpg

    The visual cues make clear who has priority. One reason stretches such as this bidirectional cycletrack (in Amersfoort, the Netherlands) are successful is that the visual cues are very clear about who has priority. Any motorist driving into and out of these driveways knows whom to yield to.

  19.  

    nocklebeast

    The fact that these treatments increase the likelihood of crashes at intersections should not surprise anyone.

  20.  

    jwcbklyn

    Over 20 percent drive alone to work — meaning they find a private car to borrow

    While car-free workers borrowing cars may represent a large portion of that 20% share, I don’t think you can assume that the entire “zero car household+drive alone to work” pool is borrowing someone’s car.

    The way the ACS question is worded (“How many automobiles, vans and trucks of 1 ton capacity or less are kept at home for use by members of this household?”) leaves room for a number of scenarios that could prompt a response of “0″ (especially if someone isn’t a native English-speaker) someone who keeps their car at an offsite garage; someone who uses a carshare program; someone who uses a company car that is registered/insured at the business address and claimed as a business expense; a household owns a pickup truck with a payload capacity of over 1 ton; etc).

    Did the study address this?

  21.  

    Gezellig

    Yup! I actually used to live in Amsterdam and biked these kinds of designs daily. It’s not the only way to do a protected intersection but for a 4-way stop it works quite well.

    It’s funny when people (who’ve never experienced this design in person or apparently even watched the video yet purport to be experts) claim this design will supposedly put people on bikes at greater risk when the Netherlands has the lowest per-capita per-distance injury rate in the world and designs like this are a big part of that. Since 80% of bike conflicts happen at intersections, they’re clearly doing something right.

  22.  

    Mike

    These are all over Amsterdam and work wonderfully.

  23.  

    Gezellig

    Did you watch the video? That’s not how it works. It addresses this issue in the video.

  24.  

    Paul Godsmark

    What is fascinating here is that this survey doesn’t appear to take account of how our cars can effectively morph into Transit 2.0 within 10 years with the arrival of fully automated vehicles (AVs). If a large Transportation Network Company (TNC – e.g. Google and Uber partnered up even more than they have already) were to provide a huge fleet of shared AVs (SAVs) that encouraged ride-sharing then we would have an on-demand mobility service (that would benefit from being electric) providing door-to-door service. This would be more efficient, cheaper, safer, more sustainable and more environmentally friendly than private car ownership, and more convenient for the majority of people than a good deal of existing fixed-node transit services. So for future Transit 2.0 we could leave the private sector to provide this service, reduce the requirement for huge investments in fixed-guideway transit and it would make our existing roadways considerably safer, cleaner and more efficient.

  25.  

    Cyclelicious

    Tanya, check out the scene in San Jose California where people of color and low income are beginning to own the bike advocacy conversation. Super interesting to watch.

  26.  

    LandArch77

    This does nothing to protect cyclists. It forces them to stop and yield for a right turning car despite having a green light to proceed through the intersection…. completely backwards traffic engineering.

  27.  

    LandArch77

    When you have a normal street, the leading cause of crashes is cyclists not following existing traffic laws, distracted motorists, and motorists unaware where cyclists are due to bike lanes and FTR laws pushing cyclists into blind spots.
    This proposal encourages and exemplifies both with a million dollar price tag.

  28.  

    IlIlIl

    It is important to expand public transit, pedestrian, and cycling infrastructure across the nation. There are places all over the US where there aren’t even sidewalks! It amazes me when I see that.

    It is also crucial that roads and highways are maintained and rethought.

    Anyway good to see that more people are seeing public transit as a good service to have and not something those people have to take.

  29.  

    Wewilliewinkleman

    Plastic.

  30.  

    barefootmeg

    Given that you can see a planter before the pedestrian, I’d say the person “taking this photo” is standing on the inside from any crossing traffic.

    And guessing that they’re going to do cycle-smart things at the intersection is exactly that… guesses.

    If the municipality and state wanted to assure people that they weren’t just going to keep cyclists safe in the safest places but were also going to provide some protection at the most dangerous places, then they should have shown that. This image shows that they want to look good without necessarily making anything particularly safer.

  31.  

    Marven Norman

    Then that means that the moment pictured is not one when traffic should be crossing. That actually happens in real life too. Also, I’d expect them to signalize the intersections, including phasing that ensures that through bikes in either direction aren’t given a green together with cars going left.

  32.  

    Marven Norman

    Actually, there are good ways to do a two-way cycletrack and not-so-good ways to do them. By and large, the good designs have continued to be lacking from the Anglophone world. Also, EVERY SINGLE AT-GRADE INTERSECTION OF TWO (or more) HIGHWAYS OR A DRIVEWAY AND A HIGHWAY IS A MANUFACTURED CONFLICT. If you’re going to oppose cycletracks [for that absurd reason], I assume that you also oppose any at-grade intersections (or at least always ask for roundabouts) and driveways too. There are mitigation measures that can be used and have shown to be effective in making the crossings safer. To say nothing of how much safer they will be when autonomous cars are more prevalent.

  33.  

    Patrick94GSR .

    There is no “best design” of 2 way cycle tracks. They are all bad. All of them. There is no good way to do a 2-way cycle track without greatly increasing danger from motorists and cyclists crossing paths. Manufactured conflicts galore with these things.

  34.  

    barefootmeg

    I don’t see any cross traffic in this image. I see a crosswalk, but it is unclear if this crosswalk is at the end of a block or mid block. Either way, it’s not pedestrians that cause the greatest danger to cyclists. When there are motorists crossing the path of a bicyclist, that’s the most dangerous point for the cyclists… and that tends to happen at intersections.

    If a motorist is turning left to cross this path and they’re looking ahead of their vehicle towards oncoming cycle traffic, they may not think to also look behind them for traffic coming from the other direction. Usually when a vehicle makes a left hand turn, the only traffic you have to worry about is the traffic approaching you from in front, not traffic that’s going to be coming up from behind.

  35.  

    Marven Norman

    The picture looks like it’s directly at an intersection unless the project is also proposing the addition of mid-block crosswalks. What’s the concern about the intersection?

  36.  

    Marven Norman

    Bicycle driving in the right-most lane of a one-way street is just as impractical as a two-way cycletrack and is a nonstarter for most people anyway, even if it isn’t a one-way street. Ringing the “education and BMUFL/sharrow” gong is worthless as people have voted with their wheels for decades and opted to not ride in urban environments. No amount of education is going to change their minds, but protected infrastructure has been proven time and time again to do so.

  37.  

    Marven Norman

    This video is by far of what is not the best design at all. Care should be taken to ensure that only the best designs make their debut into reality.

  38.  

    Fakey McFakename

    Wow, there are a lot of mayors at that event. Garcetti and Foxx is going to be interesting–wonder if that means more money’s coming LA’s way for the Purple Line Extension…

  39.  

    Alex Gonzalez

    I not only prefer transit expansion but also encourage more bike lanes in suburbs outside of NYC. Especially in places that surround NYC within a 20 mile radius. So many of the suburbs close to the big apple have little or no bike infrastructure. I for example live about 10 miles from NYC and I’ll usually just bike in from NJ over the GWB and into uptown Manhattan. So many more cyclists have increased over the years but NJ lacks the safe bike lanes of NYC. We need them too here in NJ!

  40.  

    Tim Bungum

    Fair enough. I’m sure that you know that its difficult to randomly assign projects that take this much work. I’m just glad that there are people out there who are enthused about increasing active transport to school.

  41.  

    Gezellig

    We need the protected intersection!

    http://vimeo.com/86721046

    Still waiting to see which US state/city tackles this first. Though Minneapolis did demo it once on a Sunday Streets event.

  42.  

    barefootmeg

    Why do pictures of protected bike lanes never include the intersections? It’s great that people are safe for the safest part of the block. But why are they left unprotected at the most dangerous part of the block – the intersection?

  43.  

    davistrain

    Another one of those concepts that looks cool as an “artist’s rendering” on the cover of Popular Mechanics and similar publications, but is as likely to succeed in the real world as the “atomic powered locomotive” that adorned the cover back in the same era (1950s).

  44.  

    Patrick94GSR .

    When are people going to wake up and figure out that this design is VERY bad?? Copenhagen does not even install stuff like this, so that should tell you something. In Seattle there have been deaths very recently on 2-way tracks like this. And this video clearly shows the potential for death from separated cycle tracks, both one-way and two-way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1lp_Jnv3L8

  45.  

    Luke Sherry

    I agree with you that two-way cycle tracks are inappropriate and dangerous in most urban settings (i predict a bevy of right- and left-hooks for the people in the track running against traffic), but I would disagree that the best alternative is to have one-way tracks on either side of the road. In most urban areas, bicycles and cars travel at roughly the same speed (though cars have a tendency to over-accelerated only to have to slam on the breaks at the next traffic light), so bicycle driving in the right-most lane of traffic (not the right edge of the right-most lane) is the safest and least stressful option.

  46.  

    gonewest818

    The chart shows summonses by precinct, and the underlying report also has summonses as a share of population.

    The missing chart is “summonses by share of bicycle miles travelled in the precinct”. In other words, there could be dramatically more cyclists in certain precincts and if that’s true, a completely even-handed police force in would result in more summonses in the more cycling oriented communities.

  47.  

    Matt

    I would also suggest a probably controversial explanation to potentially explain a small portion of the variability. I live in a predominantly latino community and biking slowly on the neighborhood and commercial sidewalks is something of a social activity – conversing with friends as you slowly pass them (or even stopping to chat). Biking is not seen as much as a mode of transportation from point A to point B so the bike lanes on the adjacent busy road are often ignored because they don’t allow fulfillment of the social function biking serves.

  48.  

    Jonathan Krall

    I think empowerment is also an issue. In the US, streetscapes are intimidating enough to discourage 6 out of 7 potential riders. In that environment it takes a lot of gumption, or empowerment, to get off the sidewalk and onto the street. Aggressive driving, honking, and yelling are not uncommon and are clear social indicators of disapproval. Cyclists, I think, get used to it and tend to forget how much attitude it takes to face that every day.

    In Alexandria VA, where the Del Ray and Chirilagua neighborhoods meet, it is common to see Latinos biking on sidewalks while Whites bike on the street nearby. Just stand at the corner of Mt Vernon and Commonwealth Avenues during rush hour and you can see it for yourself.

  49.  

    BlueFairlane

    It always bugged me when George Jetson’s flying car turned into a briefcase and he carried it inside. We all know the briefcase would still weigh the same as the car. It completely destroyed the believability of the show.

  50.  

    BJToepper

    Some battery electric aircraft are in experimental stages:

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/impossible-electric-airplane-takes-flight/